In this episode of Boss Talks, host Evan Happel interviews Mike Brewer, a seasoned leader in the multifamily industry and co-founder of Multifamily Media Network. Mike shares insights from his 30-year career, discussing his journey from property management to media entrepreneurship. The conversation covers leadership lessons, the importance of consistency and trust, and the value of self-care for leaders. Mike and Evan explore the evolution of organizational design, the impact of centralization, and how automation and AI are reshaping the property management landscape. Mike emphasizes the need for upskilling and embracing innovation, noting that jobs won’t be lost to AI, but to those who know how to use it. The episode also touches on Mike’s passion for coffee, his approach to personal growth, and his book, "The Daily Collective," which offers daily meditations on life and business. Listeners will gain practical advice on leadership, adapting to technological change, and maintaining excellence through curiosity and innovation.
Episode Title: Excellence Through Innovation — Boss Talks with Mike Brewer
In this episode, host Evan Happel sits down with Mike Brewer, a 30-year veteran of the multifamily industry and co-founder of Multifamily Media Network. Mike shares his journey from property management to media entrepreneurship, offering candid insights on leadership, organizational design, and the future of work.
00:00 Introduction & Guest Welcome
00:34 Mike’s Background & Industry Experience
02:43 Coffee, Community, and First Impressions
05:23 Parking Anecdotes & Technology
07:56 Music, Focus, and Personal Routines
14:30 Mike’s Real Estate Journey
18:55 Leadership: Lessons, Book, and Philosophy
22:04 Embracing Video & Social Media
28:45 Self-Care, Introversion, and Leadership
41:25 Organizational Design & Centralization
46:02 Automation, AI, and the Future of Work
49:29 Excellence Through Innovation
57:08 Closing Thoughts & Call to Action
Key Topics:
Highlights:
Connect with Mike Brewer:
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Mike Brewer _Boss 110_ Excellence Through Innovation
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[00:00:00]
Evan: Hey everybody. Welcome to Boss Talks. I'm your host, Evan Happel. We have a great show for you today. Mike Brewer is guest 110. Great round number for a great guest and he's out in California. He's actually on my time zone right now, typically out there in Atlanta, but he's in California for an AppFolio conference, which I'm kind of jealous of 'cause it looks pretty fun.
Like they're doing a pretty good job with what they're doing and he had a great opportunity to speak at that conference. But if you don't know Mike, he's been in the industry for about 30 years and. Just recently jumped out of a operations role as COO of a major property management company.
Now he's out on his own. He has a media company that he and some others have started. So he is a co-founder of [00:01:00] that called Multifamily Media Network. And they have some great podcasts and, uh, different people that are sharing some great information about what's going on in multifamily. But Mike himself, he's been doing things on the Internets for quite a while.
I mean, he's one of the first to really start posting and I mean, he posts a lot. I think his episode count, if you look on YouTube, is in the thousands. So there's a lot of short clips, long clips, interviews, but he's done a lot and we'll get into that as well. But great show for you today. Really excited to have Mike.
We're gonna talk about things like organizational design. I guess a better way to say it is centralization. We're gonna talk about automation and all the things going on there, really how to get organized and operation standpoint on site at communities. And then just leadership. He actually has a gr a lot of great thoughts around leadership that he's shared over the years, and he actually, [00:02:00] if I remember correctly, put 'em all in a book, uh, not too long ago.
And so he's a big fan of, being a good leader, helping others become better effective leaders as well. So, super excited to have him talk about all these things. And before we do, just again, Evan Happel with Community Boss, we have great solutions for you when it comes to managing your parking amenities.
And we even have some maps for you. So if you have any questions about that and how to organize those physical spaces, make revenue and just make it a better place to live and have people, your residents enjoy where they live without even knowing it. Reach out and we'll talk. But today it's about Mike.
So let's get to it. Mike, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me, Evan. Absolutely. I must say, like, so I had the opportunity of meeting you for the first time. It was at, which was it apartment wise? Yes, that's right. This last year before that [00:03:00] I had never met you. You came to my boss brunch, which I was honored that you you attended that and came with a friend of mine Jennifer Carter.
But I just actually really enjoyed talking to you. It was a, I don't know if pleasant surprise was the right word, but it was great to meet you and to just see how friendly you are and approachable you are.
Mike: Thank you. That's, that's a very kind remark and, uh, I would. Shoot that right back at you.
I it's interesting in the world of the internet, in social media, how much you sort of know people before you actually show up and actually meet them in real life, or IRL as they say the same.
Evan: Yeah. Yeah. Or at least you think you do. Right?
Mike: Right. That's fair. That's probably a better way to put that
Evan: because I, even, for my own sake, like when it comes to people that are on the internet a lot you can have your perceptions.
Accurately or inaccurately about how people are just based on what they're presenting, right? Mm-hmm. [00:04:00] So it, you don't know till you meet 'em and it's like, oh, okay, well this guy's pretty cool. So
Mike: I, I think that's definitely right. Yep. And I would, I would say the same about you. And by the way, brunch was awesome.
And you know what I was blown away by? And I'm sure this is not new technology, but when they poured the coffee and they put that little boss in sign, that was really cool. Yeah. I'm sure that I know you and I know you're
Evan: a coffee fan, so Yeah. Huge fan. I don't know that, I don't know that you're aware of this, but we actually have our own coffee.
Mike: I do know that. Yes. And I'll give you my address in case you wanna mail me about it.
Evan: Oh, you're gonna get some, don't worry. You're gonna get a coffee mug, some coffee. You're gonna even get your boss bling. 'cause I know you're gonna support that.
Mike: I'll tell you what I do coffee reviews on my blog or vlog or whatever they call 'em, then these, these days.
But, uh, I'll wear the boss stuff and swag.
Evan: Nice, nice.
Mike: And I'll taste the coffee and I'll do a review I'll, at the same time. How about that?
Evan: Beautiful. I love it. I love it. And Jennifer she actually really likes the coffee, so I hope you'll enjoy it as well.
Mike: I, uh, I can't wait. [00:05:00] Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.
Evan: Yeah. But again great to have you on the show. Before we get into kind of the nitty gritty, some of your history and all that, there's a few questions I'd like to ask. You being somebody that's been in the industry a while in operations, specifically really for a long time, uh, I'm sure there's been parts and situations where you've come into contact with parking.
So I like to just get, whether it's a parking anecdote, a story, something funny you've interacted within the industry or even just your thoughts around parking.
Mike: So, so I've worked both in urban and suburban settings. So parking structures or just surface parking in front of a traditional garden style apartment community.
I think the story that comes to mind most readily we engaged with a tow truck service who had some cutting edge technology license plate tracking and things of that nature. Sure. Some sort of tacking tagging mechanism. And I think this was in, let's see, it was in 2000 s, [00:06:00] 2008, 2009.
I can't remember exactly, but we put the service in place. We notify all of our residents. We're going live the night of. The tow truck service or however they go in and monitor all of this stuff, they end up towing, like, I don't know, let's say it was 20 or 30 cars for not being able to remember exactly very first night, right?
Yes. That we have this in place. Something was broken with the technology. And so as you can imagine we had to eat some crow and do some PR work to get all those cars back in place. Geez.
Get our relationship, our trust relationship back with residents. So yeah, it was a, oh gosh, horror story.
Evan: Yeah. No it's a, it's a true thing. Like technology can be great, but also can be, it can have results that aren't exactly ideal. So you gotta really make sure everything is all the screws are tight, if you will.
You gotta make sure everything's right on point.
Mike: Yeah, that's right. Before you press the go button, it's like, it's almost like you have to have a, let's do a dry run, right? Yeah. If you're gonna tow 30 [00:07:00] cars at some point you're probably questioning yourself. Yes.
Evan: Well, it's funny you say that 'cause like we're, we have some technology that is similar that we're working through right now to really fine tune it.
But as a company we've always been very big on warnings first and really give people the opportunity to correct their mistake before you go toe happy. Because really no one loves that.
none: No
Evan: one's happy about getting towed,
Mike: especially if
Evan: it's an error.
Mike: I think that to, to include, you know, sometimes you have to resurface parking lots in, when we would relocate cars, we wouldn't even take 'em off the property.
We would relocate them even after just massive communication people get upset about that. I parked my car here, it's not here. So, right. They're upset. Yeah. Yeah,
Evan: for sure. Alright, well thanks for answering the question. Next question. When it comes to your music of choice, when it comes to getting you motivated, getting you going, do you have a song or genre?
You go back to time and time again.
Mike: Yeah, I think it's [00:08:00] sort of specific to whatever I might be doing. So running, I run nearly every morning. When I run, there's, uh, it's like high octane music. I'm a huge Metallica fan. Okay. Um, so any of their songs really dating back to the Master of Puppets album I, I bought when I was like 18 or 19 years old.
Um, but that really gets me charged up or juiced up to go out and run in the morning. Um, if I'm getting charged for like work, I'm probably more on the sort of inspirational music I probably pull from that Christian genre of music to get inspired for a day's work. But I don't listen to as much music as I used to.
Evan: Yeah. Yeah. It's funny that I ask the question. It's actually something my, my, uh. Boss Talk alums said they're most interested in I like music. Mm-hmm. But I'm not necess, it's more of a like, I like it in the background. Yes. It isn't a motivator to me.
Mike: Yeah. It's wild. Maybe it's not along the music line, music line, but I often play the movie [00:09:00] Gladiator or Braveheart in the background.
I probably watched that movie, not watched it, but I've played it thousands of times when I'm doing work. Yes. Especially at night. And I don't know why it's those two movies, but,
Evan: yeah. Well, and if I remember correctly, you have I personally haven't been diagnosed, but I know I have some a DD going on and.
If it's silent in a room, I can't focus.
Mike: Isn't that wild? Yeah. It's, uh, yeah, I was, I was diagnosed as an adult, uh, Asperger's. Um, so Spectrum. Okay. Very high in this spectrum, but yeah, it's interesting. I a couple of thoughts about that. You're ire spot on. If there's not enough stimulus in the background, it's very hard to focus, but sometimes if there's too much stimulus in the background, then it just, I can't, sometimes I get in situations where I can't get words outta my mouth because there's my, my eyes and my ears are just trying to pay attention to everything in the room.
So you can't get your, your thoughts together to get words outta your mouth.
Evan: Right. No, I, it's fine. Yeah. I, I, I probably should get checked [00:10:00] 'cause I think I have something. I
Mike: am,
Evan: Yeah.
Mike: Look, I'll tell you, I, I resisted for a long time, but, and I wish I'd not because there, there are a lot of tools out there that are very valuable as it relates to, to functioning in the world.
It's not like you, you can't show up and function. It's just, it makes it a lot easier when you, you know, what you're dealing with.
Evan: Yeah, for sure. All right, well, thanks for answering. And then finally, when it comes to your coffee or any caffeinated beverage, but I know you're a coffee guy, so what is your c go-to coffee beverage or maybe it's your coffee roast that you love the most.
Mike: Yeah, I'm a, I am a big fan of two right now. Uh, one being free reign coffee. A particular roast would be branded which has a, a cayenne pepper. In the coffee. Yeah. So it has a little bit of a, the aftertaste has a little burn in your throat, which I think is fantastic. It's probably my favorite blend ever or brand ever my favorite roast ever.
The [00:11:00] other is Onyx which is a coffee brand that is based in like Little Rock, Arkansas.
none: Okay.
Mike: And they source coffees from all over the world. And they're very much looking for very sustainable type farmers. They certainly focus on the environment, so the coffees are expensive, but they're, they're just incredible.
I've not had a bad one yet. Smooth, rich, chocolatey in some cases. It's just, um, yeah, I really like
Evan: What so they're a small batch. So they're small batch. They're getting, making sure all the, the beans that they pick or the. The, what are they? They're like a cherry, right? Is that what they're called?
That's right. Yep. Are actually ripe and
Mike: right. Low pesticides. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's, uh, I really like that brand a lot. Like their messaging.
Evan: Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. I, I like, I'd much rather spend more on the coffee when you're brewing it yourself. 'Cause you really think about it. If you're somebody that goes to Starbucks every day or wherever [00:12:00] you're spending way more than you would spend on a nice Bean.
Mike: That's right. That's exactly right. And I, I think if you, if you start to really get into the, the art of coffee, you start to think about the different ways to prepare and make coffee. And so, like, I like French press a lot. Um-huh. As opposed to like putting it in a Keurig or putting it in a. Coffee maker.
Mm-hmm. I really like boil water to the precise temperature that you're supposed to putting it in the French press, letting it steep as long as it's, you know, whatever the coffee blend is or, or whatever you're making. It's different. But it's, uh, once you drink a lot of coffee, your palate, just like with wine and other things, becomes very trained to different, different types of coffee.
So once you start to brew it and make it yourself in the right way, it's, it's a very different experience.
Evan: Yeah. And I'm gonna guess you don't put anything on your coffee.
Mike: Oh, no. No. Straight black.
Evan: Yeah. My wife sounds good. You wanna taste it?
Mike: My wife, who I love to death feels like half milk, half coffee.
What's the point in [00:13:00] that?
Evan: Yeah. I like, I just drink it black too.
Thanks for answering and I'll have to check out your vlog, I guess. Mm-hmm. About coffee. That'd be interesting. 'cause I know you're always putting out new, uh, roasts and things, so it'd be good to. To get exposure to some good ones.
Mike: And I, I have to give a shout out to Gary Gregory. So I started doing like, reviews or, or, uh, like star reviews.
So it was like a three star or four star, whatever. So he, he pinged me one day and he said, you should do like the four cups or five cups, so, you know, to make it more sort of in line. Well it's,
Evan: It's just like the pizza review, you know that one? Yes. By, uh, bar, bar stool sports or whatever. Yeah. Uh, you could do it for coffee.
I'm in. Yeah. Yeah, I'm doing it. You're gonna have an app and everything, just, yeah.
Mike: Okay. Now we're onto something. No, that'd be fun.
Evan: Well, thanks for answering. I, I just want to get right into you a little bit. Uh, there isn't a lot, I know about you. Here and there. It's kinda like what we talked about before, getting on when people are on the internet, share themselves with [00:14:00] everyone, even though it's kind of a one-way conversation.
Um, and it becomes kind of interesting when you go to events and things 'cause people are like, Hey, and you're like, yep. Don't know you. But I guess you know me. Uh,
none: that happens.
Evan: But I do find it interesting. You've your career has spanned 30 plus years, um, and I'm assuming, have you predominantly been in the space of multifamily, most of your professional career?
Mike: Yeah. Dating back to two? Well, 19. 19 94, 19 95, plus or minus. Um, actually started out in the single family home sales business.
none: Okay. Right
Mike: on. Right on the heels of college in right after I, I started a landscape company right outta college.
Evan: Okay.
Mike: And called the Lawn Ranger, which I thought was very clever.
Evan: It's,
Mike: I started the lawn ranger and I built that business [00:15:00] up and ultimately ended up selling it to somebody because I started selling single family homes. And I, I couldn't do both. There was just too much activity. And, uh, so re max, you've probably heard of that. Yeah. Franchise. So I became an agent for re max.
It was also re max Town and Country, so it was a local gentleman. I grew up in a fairly small town, like 30,000 people. And, uh. So I figured out very quickly though that I didn't like the feast and falon famine of, uh, single family home cells and I wasn't patient enough to build the farm. Somebody had suggested to me it take, it takes like five to seven years to like build your farm and start to harvest from that farm.
And I, I just didn't have that kind of patience. So I started buying little single family homes on land contracts. And then the gentleman that actually put me to work in his firm, uh, sold me an plex apartment community. So that was my sort of my first foray into apartment community management.
Interesting. Yeah, so I started out like managing that stuff, owning and managing myself. So doing all the work from carpet replacement to plunging toilets and the [00:16:00] whole nine yards.
Evan: Yeah. Well, and I think that's interesting because, so you started real early when it comes to getting. Into multifamily in a small scale like, eight plex duplexes, all that kind of stuff.
Probably. So when we talked back in at compartmentalize, one of the things I asked you was, so how did you just, you could have been a great investor and things like that, and that's probably part of it, but part of it you mentioned was you do have a somewhat of a real estate portfolio and it looks like you started early and you've just built on that.
Mike: Yeah, I, so there's two, the answer that I gave you, I'll get there. I'll just make it really quick. Okay. So I built up a portfolio of. Let's see, 25 units when I was roughly 25 years old. And, uh, woke up one day and I was in a tremendous amount of debt. It wasn't like that stuff. It's free, right? So, yeah. Not debt that I can handle, but I also met a girl and decided that I was going to move back to [00:17:00] where I went to college in Lubbock, Texas.
So I lived about a hundred miles away from Lubbock, Texas. So I decided to go back to Lubbock with my girlfriend, and I gave all of that real estate to my parents and they became the property managers. And we sold it off very slowly over time. If you fast forward to the conversation that we had, so what I, after I started working in the traditional multifamily space as you and I know it mm-hmm.
I started investing in deals along the way at the various companies that I worked for. So the portfolio of real estate that I hold today is really on paper, not in physical. Okay. I don't own phones today. I just own paper. Which makes me an investor in real estate, which I actually like a lot better.
Evan: Yeah. Yeah. So you're, you've invested in portfolios and things, and where you have a stake in various ones, basically.
Mike: That's right. So individual assets, so the gentleman that I work for, they may buy a 300 unit community or a 600 unit community, and I just put some equity into the deals. [00:18:00]
Evan: Oh, okay.
Mike: Basically like buying stocks on the stock market. But I'm buying stocks in a, in a multifamily building.
Evan: Okay. Interesting. Well, I mean, that's cool because that, it still means you care about the space and you have actual stake in the success of this industry. You're not just speaking from a Yeah, well, I can say whatever I want and whether it's true or not.
Mike: That's right. You know, I think the thing that I, I really love about real estate is that it's physical, it's tangible. If something is going wrong at a piece of real estate, you can actually get in your car and you can drive down to the, to the asset. And you can do something about it. Whereas investing in the stock market, I'm not saying the stock market isn't a great place to invest, but it's not like you can get in the car and go to Starbucks and talk to the barista and get the, that particular location righted.
You can't do that. Right. Yeah. In real estate, you can really, you can really impact something.
Evan: For sure. Well, before we get into the, I guess the, uh, operational things, organizational design, things like that, I really would like to start [00:19:00] with leadership because it's something you speak about a lot.
You've, again, you wrote a book kind of com I'm assuming it was more of a compilation of things that you had shared over time. Mm-hmm. Um, I haven't had the privilege of actually looking at it, to be honest. I don't know what all's in there, but, um, I'll send you, you can speak to that. Okay. Awesome.
Um, but I will say I see a lot of your posts, you have a lot of anecdotes you share and. Like where, when did that start for you? Where you, you had these ideas, things you've shared over the years and like where, 'cause honestly, I have a hard time. I have a lot of thoughts.
And part of like, I guess my wiring and my undetermined makeup or whether I have a DD or something else, I don't know.
But I have a lot of thoughts, but I'm not great at like, writing them down or the being someone to share about it. So how did it start for you, where in your wiring leadership and [00:20:00] helping others think through leadership became more of a, an outflow?
Mike: S So it's interesting, I've never, I've never told this story.
I've never really thought about it till you ask that question, the. Where it started. Are you familiar with a company called Amway? Yes. No, I was not in Amway, but, and I have nothing against Amway, but I had a friend who just went all in. Right? Yeah. He drank the Koolaid. Mm-hmm. And he was a really good friend of mine.
And so one, one day he invited me to go to this Amway thing. And because he is my friend, I say yes. And we go and I'm sitting and I'm listening to these gentlemen talk about their success in, in Amway. But what really caught my attention in that was the leadership development aspect of Amway. So books, tapes, things, seminars, things of that nature.
And they shared a bunch of the authors names. Books. So I left the seminar and I went to, there was Hastings, do you remember Hastings? Way back in the day. It was like Barnes, I dunno,
none: Hastings,
Mike: pre Barnes and [00:21:00] Noble. It was like music. Oh, okay. In a store. Yes. So I went to Hastings and I bought, uh, think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill.
And I read that. I sat down and read that book in, in one night. I got really inspired, so I went and bought all of his books and then OG Manino and a lot of other interesting people that wrote about leadership at the time. And started really digesting that information and imbuing it in my head. And at some point along the way, I won't be able to cite the date.
I started writing quotes on three by five index cards. And so if you were to come to my house today, you would see that I have tens of thousands of three by five index cards. I've, I've, since I graduated, a four by six. Because I thought I could write more on those, but then I figured out that the constraint of a 3, 5, 5, 3 by five is better.
It makes your thought process more concise. Um, so anyway, I have tens of thousands of these. The book was really born out of just taking a portion of those cards that I'd written on over all these years, right? And using those as like lead quotes, quotes that I was [00:22:00] inspired by. Mm-hmm. And then trying to author something that was germane to the quote, but actionable to the reader.
So it's a 365 day book, right? So January 1st, you open it up and you read that entry. There's a quote and a little story and, and hopefully a, a call to action for you. And then you read the second, the third, the fourth, the fifth. That's how that came to be.
Evan: Okay. Interesting. And then going from writing these things down to then putting yourself out on the internet because being that you're wired the way you are.
'cause I know how I'm wired and getting on camera was not a natural thing for me. I wasn't like, I love attention and I just wanna be on the internet every day.
It just happened, you know? And now it's, now it's a thing and I'm comfortable now,
Mike: but it happens with enough reps. You can, yeah, yeah. This is, uh, wow. You're asking some great questions or I'm not used to being on this side of the camera. So I'll, I'll tell you the story where this all started.
It happened right there in Seattle. [00:23:00] Okay. And there, do you know Greg?
Evan: Yeah.
Mike: Sloan Ana too.
Evan: Yeah.
Mike: Greg was my regional manager when I worked at equity residential properties.
Evan: Really? Okay.
Mike: And we had this huge property called Waterstone Place in Federal Way Washington. Yeah. And I was the general manager at the property.
And one day, Bruce Levine, who was the, I think the RVP at the time, Bruce and Greg come to the property. Bruce has a camera and we're shooting video for this child afterschool childcare program that we were doing on the property. And I couldn't do it. I was just, I froze. Solid, tell you, perform in front of the camera, right?
And so I was super embarrassed by that. And from that moment forward, I started just shooting videos of myself, speaking, just so I could get comfortable with a camera rolling, no audience. It was just trying to do the reps. And then later on when, that was before YouTube, that was before any of this stuff came along that we know as social [00:24:00] media today.
But when social media did arrive on the scene, I started doing that on a daily basis, really just to get the reps in to be, uh, comfortable in front of the camera for a bigger picture. I wanted to be in leadership roles and I knew. In a leadership role, you have to stand in front of an audience and you have to be comfortable and you have to be able to present and you have to be quick on your feet and things of that nature.
And, and really what, what, you know today as the multifamily collective is really my everyday rep to continue to be comfortable in front of a camera and in leadership roles.
Evan: Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Because it, it's a, it's a thing. It's being in front of a camera when you're wired certain ways is kind of like terrifying.
Very, because I don't know for you, but for me, what, what I worry about is everything external from this, like, what I can't control, it's kinda like when you have a conversation with another person. I don't really [00:25:00] like I'm not a big fan of meeting somebody. I have zero. Intel about.
none: Mm-hmm.
Evan: Because I like to kind of have a lead in, in my head as to, okay, this person, I know these things and that's where I can go with a conversation versus I know nothing and they, this may actually turn into them asking me questions, which I don't love. I understand that there's a lot, so like, I, maybe it's a control issue, but, but it's my wiring.
Right. Like, so, so for you, like, what was it that was I guess, most scary? Like the un I guess controllable factor?
Mike: Yeah. I, I think I wouldn't have known this at the time. And I've only been able to discern it through the diagnosis with Asperger's. And, and yeah. And I'll share that because I think it's germane to this conversation.
It's, I think now I understand that it was just to your point about control Uhhuh, part of this, part of it, Asperger's, is that sometimes it's as challenging as, okay, if I'm gonna [00:26:00] go to a conference to speak, I'm gonna fly in the day before. I'm gonna go into the venue, I'm gonna go into the room, I'm gonna stand on the stage.
And so I can get this picture in my head of what it's gonna be like. To your point, I'm not gonna be able to control the audience, but at least I can control the fact that I'm, I know where I'm going. Yes, I know I'm gonna be able to show up on time. I know what it's feels like to stand on the stage. All of those things to your wiring.
To my wiring. It's all necessary, right? To feel comfortable. So I think it was just. I guess getting an awareness of that was the biggest thing.
Evan: Yeah. Yeah. And for me, I think initially with video it was like, alright. Initially I think I thought the whole Internet's gonna see this.
And I was like, I'm not ready for that. Yeah. Then I realized, no, like 10 people are gonna see this. Like when it came to, when I first started, when it was like a new thing for me, like I was going live to Instagram and it's like, no, the whole internet isn't seen. Yeah.
[00:27:00] Yeah. Unless I do something ridiculous that goes viral, which is not likely to happen. But
Mike: yeah I think for, to speak to that point, I, I, um. I remember sitting down, I, I won't be able to recall when I did this, but I, I thought to myself, there's, there is this, which pain is worse, right? The pain of the potential of people seeing things on the internet, like in other words, the audience out there and what are they thinking, what are they seeing?
And so on and so forth there. So there's pain involved in that.
Evan: Yeah.
Mike: Then there was another pain that I held in my mind at the same time, and that was the pain of not being able to step into roles of leadership or not being able to step into roles where you have influence or otherwise. And I thought that pain was more excessive than the pain of what.
Might happen on the other side, right? Mm-hmm. So I use that as inspiration to just say, kind of like, feel the fear and do it anyway, right?
Evan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, and, and I guess this, the reason I even bring any of this up is you actually recently just posted something now. I [00:28:00] can't even remember exactly what it was.
It was like two days ago, I think. You had a thought around, gosh dang what, maybe you remember what you said a couple days ago. It was, it wasn't a long post. And it was something around this idea of, maybe you'll help me. It was,
Mike: yeah. The, was it the, when Andrew Bowen was at a, a conference and he took some time to step outside and kind of maybe being center?
Evan: Yeah. Yeah. Where it's just, I don't know. It had to do with this idea of like. Nah, I can't even remember. But it could have been that. But maybe go ahead and say that. 'Cause you, you had a good thought and it was kind of just calling out a certain aspect of whether it's being online, being in front of the camera and just putting yourself out there.
Mike: If it's the one I'm thinking of. So Andrew was at a conference and he had a meeting in the morning, but the meeting, whoever he was meeting with rescheduled on him. And so he took that time instead of trying to fill that time with something else, he went outside in the sunlight, had 10 minutes, sort of gathered thoughts, [00:29:00] but he went outside and he actually did a post and he shared that sometimes you're an introvert.
I'm, I'm also an introvert, so, and I think Andrew, yeah, hopefully I'm correct in this. Andrew is, is also an introvert, but so introvert doesn't necessarily mean you're shy of the public. It just means like you're, the public sucks the energy outta you. All the energy
Evan: outta you.
Mike: Yeah. Yeah. And so giving yourself permission to.
Escape from the public in a public setting. So if you're at a conference, giving yourself 10 minutes, even if, look, it sounds ridiculous, but even if you just go to the bathroom and you see it in a saw and you just get yourself centered a little bit, or if you do have the advantage of going outside, just getting away and allowing your body to recharge, allowing your mind and the cortisol levels, levels that are going crazy up here to settle a little bit so that you can actually go back into an environment and and participate productively.
I think giving yourself the permission to do that instead of force playing yourself in those scenarios. Just wearing [00:30:00] yourself out so that when you get home at night, you're, you're just dead to the world. You're dead to your family. You're dead to Right. The other types of interaction,
Evan: no, and I think this is very important and this going back to leadership, knowing your own wiring and what your needs are so you can be effective leader, whether that's in work or home or whatever.
'cause I'm right with you. When I'm at a conference, I'm an introvert, but I like people and so I've learned that I just need to go back to my room and even for 30 minutes to an hour, just like do nothing. Yeah. And then maybe I can go back out the rest of the day. But if I don't do that, I'm gonna be so tired by the end of everything.
Mike: Yeah, it's, you know, it's interesting, I have a, a doctor friend who lives in Denver, Colorado, and he has a saying, he, he likes to show up as a beneficial presence for the people around him. Right. And I like that. But there's this self-care routine that you have to go through to include, if you're [00:31:00] overwhelmed, you need to go get re-centered.
So you can be a beneficial presence to other people but you also have to do that self-care, care to be a beneficial presence to yourself. Right? Yeah. So you have to get centered in self so you can go out in the world and exude kindness and things that are really germane to, to what we are wired to be in, in, uh, as humans.
And that is to be in community, uh, with women.
Evan: Right. Yeah, totally. Leadership specifically, is there anything that over the course of your career, the thing that you like, really wanted to share about today? The thing that, the biggest takeaway when it comes to leadership. That you, you hold to every single day that you think is valuable to others?
Mike: Yeah. That, wow. It's, it's a big question. I think, look, leadership is in my head showing up and sort of being a model for the way to behave in the world, right? And that's not a moralistic statement. It's just if people are going to follow you, they want to know that [00:32:00] they're following somebody that is of good agency, uh, that is of good integrity.
Who is honest, who is resourceful, who is willing to jump in and get their hands dirty. So they, they wanna follow that, right? And when you get out of alignment with what are really good behaviors related to re um, leadership, that's when people start to fall off and they start to not trust you.
Mm-hmm. Because leadership is really about trust. Mm-hmm. I believe parts. So I think that the thing that you have to understand very early on is that. Your people are watching you all the time. They're not necessarily listening to what you say. Yeah. They're watching your actions and they're watching your behaviors, and that is what they are inspired by and what they're motivated by and what they want to become is a better behaved human being in the world.
And they don't, and they don't really care what you're saying until they see that that is right. And good and center. Then they'll listen to what you have to say. And so you have to earn that trust through behaviors [00:33:00] and actions before you have a, uh, the opportunity to lend voice to it.
Evan: No, I think that's a very apt thing to say. Very. Concisely put, there's so many experiences that I've had under the leadership of others where the lips say one thing, but the actions are not in alignment with the lips and it does not make you wanna follow that person.
Mike: That's right. And look, I'll be the first to say you you mess it up.
Leaders mess up. Yeah. I mess up. All leaders mess up. I think the recovery from, from messing up is just as important as the, the consistent behavior over a long bit of time. That's what people are looking for. It's just consistency over time. And when you do make a mistake, you own it. Mm-hmm. And you correct it.
And they can see the picture of that as well in the behavior.
Evan: Yeah. No, it's, yeah. Important. And you only can really do that if you. Actually have somewhat of a rapport and relationship with those people and a trust where you've shown this over time. Because [00:34:00] if you just expect them all of a sudden to give you that trust, but you've never built that kind of relationship, it also isn't gonna get far.
That's right. That's exactly right. You just expect me to, to forgive you now. Okay. It doesn't work like that. Sure. You got it. No problem. Yeah, no. Well thanks for sharing that. I think that is a very solid thing to share and for, and it's an actionable thing. 'cause it's, it affects us in all aspects of our life, in all days of our life to really think through, do our actions match our words.
Mike: Yeah, that, that's right. And I, I think the real sacrifice, or, or maybe trade off is a better word. If you're a youth making your way into the leadership world, there are youthful behaviors that are, there're probably right and appropriate for context and settings and things of that nature, or you just have to get your wild side out or whatever.
But if you want, and this is just one guy's opinion, right? If you really want to excel in the [00:35:00] area of leadership, there are sacrifices and trade-offs that you have to make in early innings, right? In the youth of your career where the after party is probably not the right party to go to because you're right, your tendency to, to let the hair down and start to act in a way that is not in alignment with what I'd consider to be leadership.
It, they just get. It just gets messy and it gets marred and, and that's not an indictment of that kind of stuff.
none: Right.
Mike: All fun. But if you have a real aim at leadership, you probably have to make some of those sacrifices in the early earnings. Yeah, no,
Evan: that's, that's accurate. Otherwise, you're, you're showing who you are and people are not necessarily wanting to give you those opportunities.
Mike: Yeah. I think that's probably a better way to put that and, um. So it's, again, I'm not an indictment and not judgment or anything. I don't want to come across in that way. It's just no.
Evan: But people, you know, people have to make a judgment call on you, right?
none: Mm-hmm.
Evan: And there's a risk giving people a leadership position, and if, if [00:36:00] your decision making shows a certain mm-hmm.
Right? Level of. With your personal life, you're pretty reckless.
Mike: Right. You, you're the, uh, denominator in both of those worlds. Right?
Evan: You're showing me a person, and I don't know if that person's a leader. Right.
Mike: Don't plan the wrong, don't plant the wrong question marks in people's minds.
Totally. Exactly. About your future.
Evan: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Especially when in the day where your whole life's on the internet.
Mike: Oh, so bad, right? This is not like, you know, photocopying a, a body part on a, a machine at a Christmas party. This is like, yeah, like, and you know, only that group knows about that, but today the whole world knows about that,
Evan: right?
Yeah. Or they can yeah. They just gotta dig a little bit, do a Google search. So as much as people don't see my videos in the millions, they could still Google me and see all the videos. That is exactly right. Yes. Yeah. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that. I really do appreciate that, and for anyone that's interested in hearing more kind of the, your [00:37:00] anecdotes and leadership ideas, what is your book called?
Mike: Uh, it's called The Daily Collective. Um, so it's, it's 366 because every leaf year there are 360 6 days. It's 360 6. Thoughts on life and leadership or life and business? I wrestled with the title, so I don't have it in front of me. I can't tell you exactly, but it's just 366 meditations on life and in business.
Evan: All right. Well, thanks for sharing as to how you got to that, because I've always wondered how is this guy coming up with this stuff? Yeah,
Mike: it's, uh,
Evan: I just thought of it. Definitely not. That's wild. How does, how does anybody have thoughts that are, you know, Gary? Gary Gregory, similarly, you know, he, he does a similar thing.
Um, I know you know who he is. He worked under you for a time at, uh, rad Co. Right?
Mike: That's right. Yep. We worked together at RAD Co for a little over a year, I think. Okay. Yeah.
Evan: Yeah.
Mike: I really like him. He's,
Evan: yeah, I, I had him on the show just a few weeks ago, so That's right. Yeah. I, so that was great to have him [00:38:00] and, you know, I, I haven't been able to talk to him a lot either, so it was good to get to know him a little better.
Mike: Yeah, he's, uh, I, I was really inspired by Gary. I had the opportunity, obviously, to spend a little bit of time with him, but he, I think he was a triathlete and, uh, I was really inspired, you know, not just because of his work product, but, uh, I'm really into running and ran my first marathon last two years ago, and then another one last year.
And he was a part of my inspiration in terms of training and like what to do to recover from really long runs and how to fuel yourself during a long run. So, yeah.
Evan: Well, that's, that's pretty wild that you, to decide late in the game, later in life. Yeah. You know what, let's do a marathon. Yeah.
Mike: Yeah.
You know, it's funny, I, I turned 50 a couple of years ago and it's I, this is not my novel thought. I read it somebody, but it was somewhere, but I won't be able to make attribution. It, it, uh. Once you turn 50, you want to continue to do hard stuff, right? And yeah. And so a marathon was doing hard stuff.
Now my buddy and I are gonna do a hundred miler uh, next spring. Yeah. So what an [00:39:00] ultra. That's, uh, that's our next, uh, goal.
Evan: The training alone for that is wild.
Mike: Oh, it's insane. Absolutely insane. And so you just,
Evan: you're just gonna start running to all your business. Right.
Mike: You want me to speak in San Diego?
I'll, I'll, I'll take off now. I'm just gonna run. Just gonna run there.
Great
Evan: training. Great training.
Mike: Do you have a shower? It's the only thing I, I need a shower. I'll ship my head and close ahead of time. FedEx. Yeah. And, uh, take a shower when I get there and we'll, we'll be good to go.
Evan: Oh, man. Well, now I want to know about this. You're gonna have to, you're gonna have to document the, uh.
What it's like to train for that. I think there's a lot of learning out of that.
Mike: I, yeah. Listen, we got, so we were supposed to run on November the fourth third or fourth. And we decided to push it off to the spring because I took a trip to Ireland, so it really messed up the training routine. But yes, I intend to do that.
I intend to kind of take, uh, videos and pictures of stuff along the way. 'cause it's, uh, the training I did do was very painful. It, uh, I'm sure there are lots of lessons I can glean from that and share. Oh
Evan: [00:40:00] gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I can hardly, I, I do a, a running relay every year and. I, that's a lot for me. Now, granted, I'm not the lightest guy, so if I lost a little weight, I'm sure it wouldn't be as impactful on my joints.
Mm. But
Mike: you do hood to coast, right? Yeah. Yeah. That is a lot. I used to live in Welch's, so Okay. You run right through Welch's from when you do the hood to coast.
Evan: Yeah, we go, yeah. Kind of the northern part of Oregon. Mm-hmm. From, go from Mount Hood. That's right. Through the, yeah. And then head over to the seaside.
But yeah, it's so much fun. It's a fun, it's a fun event. It's like nothing else. You're spending a mile six. People in a car doing a, you have a goal of finishing and the nonsense that's shared in the, the amount of like delirious ness that goes on in the midst of that. I can only imagine how delirious you get running a hundred miles though
Mike: right.
And because you don't go to [00:41:00] sleep, you just run until you're done, so, oh gosh. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know yet, but once I figure that out, I'll share it with you.
Evan: Oh
Mike: man.
Evan: Yeah. That's crazy. I don't know how this segues necessarily, but the next thing that you were very passionate about and interested in talking about today was about organizational design and centralization, which is probably something that you were really active in figuring out.
At the tail end of, being at Rad Co as you were leaving and now it's something you can just do whatever you want with. But what is it that you have both in a practical sense being with a company, a larger company, to today and all the things that are around it from a technology standpoint and all the factors that go into the idea of centralization.
What, where are you at with it from a positive or even negative standpoint?
Mike: Yeah, it's, um, you know, there's a lot in that question. The, I have to [00:42:00] go back like 15, maybe close to 20 years now. Equity residential was actually doing centralization, like let's just call it 20 years ago for sake of conversation.
And at the time it looked like taking an assistant manager, at a property and giving them a responsibility of assistant manager duties at two other properties, right? So you have one person doing the work of three, and you really compartmentalize them. So they're only doing the functions that are germane to that particular position.
So no longer are they leasing apartments like they traditionally do or any of the other stuff. They're just doing the assistant manager roles and responsibilities. So centralization has been in my sort of acumen for 20 years now. I, I don't like the term because I think if you look it up in the dictionary, it says taking the decisions of many and putting it in the hands of a few.
And I don't really like that concept, right? Because back in the day we really talked a lot about empowerment. And allowing people on the front lines to make [00:43:00] decisions that were germane to the context at, at that time, right? Today, you take all those decisions away from the site team members, you put 'em in the hands of a few, and you govern everything through technology.
And so the empowerment piece of that is gone. Now we sort of try to dress that up and say, Hey, now you're gonna have time to do other things, and we're gonna get you doing stuff that is more relationship oriented versus transaction oriented. And while I do believe in that, I think the better term for this is organizational design.
none: Mm. And,
Mike: and I think organizational design, meaning we're gonna retool our job descriptions, we're gonna retool our career advancement, we're gonna retool the whole thing, right? If you think about a corporate hierarchy, which by the way, it's just total side note, I think the biggest disruption that's gonna happen.
Over the course of the next five years plus minus. That's a pure guess on my side is the traditional hierarchy in a business is gonna go away. And let me give you a supporting reason for that. A couple of years ago, there was a prediction [00:44:00] made that when AI really made its way into the, into the world, there would be a company that was created by a handful of people that would have a billion dollar valuation.
That actually happened a couple of months ago. A handful of people put together basically a bunch of AI agents that spoke with one another and they created a Bitcoin type business that now is worth or has a value of over a billion bucks. And there is no hierarchy in that business. And so I think, I think people are, are going to get, going to get disrupted as it relates to.
The traditional hierarchy that, you know, today as the CEO, the president, the CFO and, and all the other infrastructure layers that go down through an organization, we're gonna see these very flat organizations. So organizational design is very important because you have to start to think through what does the world look like when you don't have a hierarchy and you don't have command and control that is governed by people, but rather by technology.
And there's so much baked into that, that that is important.
Evan: Yeah. So the next thing was automation. So [00:45:00] when it plays in, I mean, these kind of go hand in hand a little bit or a lot of it. Yeah. Um, AI automation, technology all coming together to make the organizational design something that is more effective and maybe is what?
Makes things flatter because you don't need as many layers because you're having technology take these tasks that would've been, you know, these layers. Mm-hmm. And now you're, you're having them augmented by using tech. Yeah. So what is the role of the automations and what are you seeing, like what's out there right now that's really having that effect and making this possible?
Mike: So, so I'm at the AppFolio conference, right?
And AppFolio I think is, this is just the jumping off point. AppFolio is now baked in AI or GAI into their software system such that I can show up and do, if I have a rot and [00:46:00] routine piece of my job, I can now, as an employee, as a team member of whatever property management company, I can go in there and I can sort of prompt the tech.
To automate that rot routine thing that I do every day, right? So I can actually build it myself as an employee. And so if you think about that if we engage an army of team members out in the marketplace, creating all the workflows, automating all the workflows themselves, right? At some point, everything in our ecosystem becomes either subject to automation or it becomes fully, fully automated.
Now, the only part of the business that I think is gonna be tough to automate, although I think robotics that are probably gonna solve this problem is on the service side of the business, right? AI doesn't plunge toilets and AI doesn't snake. But I think that probably isn't far down the road. It's reasonable to think we can do that.
But I think all of that being said, I think the big real punchline for leaders is [00:47:00] we, it is incumbent upon all of us to really. Take a hard look at upskilling and reskilling getting our team members used to the idea of working with a digital assistant.
And or being subject to the digital assistant's direction.
Imagine this if you are a leasing consultant or a maintenance technician and all of a sudden you have a, a chat bot telling you what to do all day long.
Evan: Right. And it's almost like your boss.
Mike: That's right. Right. It's choreographing your day and it's telling you where to drive and when to drive and what tool you need to take with you and what inventory it already knows what inventory you have on your truck.
It knows you're close to this work order that needs to be done. It knows exactly what kind of traffic you're gonna deal with to get there. If you're, you're kind of a remote maintenance technician or if you're a leasing consultant that. It's gonna completely control your calendar. It's also gonna know your skillset.
It's gonna know if you're the best agent for this particular prospect because of you've only been in the business for three months versus three years. It'll know all [00:48:00] that. And it, it really will tell you what to do all day long. And getting people used to that idea, I think is gonna be a real leadership, uh, challenge.
Evan: Yeah, I mean, I was just gonna ask flattening. I mean, I don't think it's happening overnight, first of all. No, no, no. But, but at the same time, everybody out, there's afraid, what's gonna happen to my job? What's this look like? And I mean, for me, it seems like in the short run, it just means your job changes.
Yes. It doesn't necessarily mean you lose your job, it just means you won't have the same job.
Mike: That's right. I, I think that is right. And I think what is really important for team members who believe that they're going to be impacted by this is. Be the first mover in understanding how to work with a digital assistant and getting used to the idea of doing it because you won't lose your job to ai, you'll lose your job to somebody who understands how to use ai.
Right. So be the first mover and just guess what, no one knows [00:49:00] what this is gonna look like in the future. We're all making it up every single day. Right. If you're interacting with AI today, you're making it up. Yeah. So we're super early innings. Engage, go to town with learning how to use it and leverage it in your own work world, in your personal life or whatever.
And you should be, at least in my mind, you're, you're at least protected over the next three to five years. Yeah. And you're upskilling yourself at the same time. Right. You're making yourself more valuable.
Evan: Absolutely. And I mean, that's exactly what you put at the end here. Having a commitment to excellence through innovation.
It's really embracing that as your way of being, because innovation isn't going away. Things aren't gonna stop changing and progressing. If you think that you just want things to go backwards, it's not gonna happen unless technology just goes away, which I could happen. Right? Like, like we, we could be, anyways, we won't get into that, but Yeah, you never know until, until that happens.
This is the way we're going.
none: Yeah.
Evan: So yeah. What, [00:50:00] what has it been through your history, just kinda like, in a sense, wrapping things up, your I your idea of excellence through innovation. Has it always been something for you where you've embraced. The, maybe the things that are happening in the world, whether it's technology or something else.
That is that innovative thing. What is it, how is it that you've positioned yourself to be an embracer of that?
Mike: Maybe it sounds like a simple answer, but I've always been innately curious about the world no matter what the domain is. And I'm I'm more hands on. So if I wanted to learn something, I wanted, I needed to become a practitioner of it.
Right. Mm-hmm. I love to read books, but I also needed to get my hands on it and do it. So I've always been curious about. The world. I've taken a bunch of assessments and tests and I, it always comes out that visionary is a, is a thing for me. So, and that's a big term. I, I have a hard time seeing that even out loud.
But
none: yeah.
Mike: But just seeing [00:51:00] around the bend, seeing around the corner, I love futuristic narrative and, and that kinda stuff. So once I see something that's sort of aligning with futuristic stuff, I think, oh, I'm gonna do that, because it seems like the world's going that way. So, yeah. Yeah. And then just jump in and not be afraid to mess it up.
Evan: Uhhuh
Mike: and, yeah. Messing it up as part of the learning, so,
Evan: right. You always can, you can always fix it.
Mike: Yeah. That's right. Yeah. That's even that with video games, right? You just, uh,
Evan: yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, it's, it's as long as you're a con, you're, like you said before, as a leader, as long as you're consistent, you're showing who you are, you're showing that if you do make a mistake, you'll own the mistake.
You're gonna fix that. It's not, you know, not embracing, uh, innovation because of fear is not really something that's gonna get you anywhere. I mean, you can, unless it's a certain business where it's just like you've embraced, you build cabinets and you build 'em by hand and you charge more because it takes you longer.[00:52:00]
I mean, that's your.
none: Yeah,
Evan: that's right. Then that's your thing, I guess, you know, but most people right, are probably not doing that. I,
Mike: I think you're right about
none: that. That,
Mike: yeah. I think the, the biggest punchline, the biggest lesson is just to not, not be, look, the internet didn't ask for our permission for it to come to be Right.
Neither is AI gonna ask for our permission for it to come to be. It's here, it's call it forced upon you. It's the way the world is going to work. So jump in. Yeah. Yeah. Let's figure out
Evan: how to live life with it. Right?
That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I tend to have that upper visionary thinking too.
Um, and I've always had that and. When you have that at a young age it's hard because when I was young, I was in companies and I didn't matter. I was in a big company and it was like what does my word have to say? Like, nobody gives a, like, nobody cares what I have to say, but my brain. Was acting as if, oh no, you're up here.
You, you. Yeah. [00:53:00] Yeah. So it is a struggle like that. That's right. What do you, what do you do with these thoughts? So yeah, I've had opportunities to like live it out and, and be in positions where it, it is useful, I guess. Mm-hmm. So, otherwise it's frustrating. Yeah. I would agree with that. It's like, this is a useless skillset I have.
Mike: Right. You start your own company. That's,
Evan: yeah. I mean, seriously, like, I, I've, I've definitely thought about that and it's like, what would I do? Yeah.
Mike: I know. It's hard, but it's, uh, or, or you sit inside of a company where they allow you to be an intrapreneur and you have lots of creative control over your environment, and that, that's also a cool position to be in if you're Yeah.
If you have an open environment like that.
Evan: Yeah. I, I'm a big fan of innovation. I, I, I kind of echo what you're, what you've kind of like built your career off of, because even in those situations where I was the peon in the organization, [00:54:00] you know, I got an award for being like most innovative and, but I also didn't fit.
And I got this, I like got this award and then I left soon after. Thanks. Thanks. I'm gone. Thanks.
It's like you guys are right. I am innovative. I'm gonna leave.
Mike: Thank you for validating me. I'm gonna go to my thing. Yeah.
Evan: Biggest thing I learned is don't be in a very big company.
Mike: Yeah. There's truth to that.
Evan: Unless you are up at the top,
Mike: yep. There's truth to that as well.
Evan: No, but I, I appreciate you being on with me today.
It's been great to get to know you more and hear more of what you have to say. Is there anything more you wanted to share on the automations and all that front? No. Maybe something takeaways from, uh, your most recent ventures out to California, where you're at right now, and
Mike: I, I think the, the biggest thing here.
I think we said this is, is that I think what you're gonna see happen is that property management systems specifically are gonna start to bake AI and g AI into their platforms such that team members can [00:55:00] actually craft their own workflows, digital workflows, so that whatever they do on a daily basis can be crafted in a way.
And you're gonna start to see I love this saying, work is the learning and learning is the work. I love that saying, and I think what you're gonna start to see very shortly in the world of training related to property management systems and other systems that you might do, is that you're working on real time business cases, but the AI is smart enough to know whether you're answering the questions right, or you're doing the stuff right.
And if you're not, it's just gonna pop up and let you know in a very nice way. As nice as technology can be, it's, it's gonna help mentor you along to, to make sure you're building your skill in the right way so that the customer doesn't suffer or other team members don't suffer, or the business doesn't suffer.
So it's all just gonna be baked into the DNA of the, the software systems that run our businesses on a go forward, I think everybody's gonna have, have AI baked into the, the core offering of their, uh, their software Now.
Evan: I think it already is.
Mike: Yeah. It's just gonna become more and more vibrant and the more and more it's gonna become more and more vibrant and useful.
Evan: Yeah. Cat, cat came out of the [00:56:00] bag like it was already being worked on, but it like all became very apparent. Like what, a year or two ago? Yeah. And then ever since then it's just like, that's all you hear.
Mike: Yeah, that's right. You almost have some fatigue from hearing.
Evan: Yeah, no, that's true. It's now it's the buzzword.
It was, there's always been a buzzword, but that's definitely the buzzword. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah. Mike, so good to have you on the show. Thank you for giving me your time and cutting away from what's going on down in California for a minute to be with me. I appreciate it. And. Just, I hope that people are able to watch this or listen to it in, you know, the coming days and weeks and get some good nuggets out of it.
Hopefully they'll check out your book as well and get some insight into the different nuggets and leadership mantras and things that you have to share. 'cause I know that you're sincere about it. You're not just somebody that's, naturally loving to be in the front of everyone's face.
Excellent. Again muscles [00:57:00] flex. You actually, you probably stop doing it. It would, it would probably quickly become hard. That's right. That's how that works. Right? Atrophy, kicks
Mike: in pretty quickly.
Evan: Yeah. Yeah. It's like, uh, I'm not gonna start that again.
none: Well,
Mike: well, I mean, I mean, it's been a pleasure. I really appreciate, I feel honored that you had me on, i've watched the boss talks, not all of them, but a lot of them, and Sure. I really appreciate what what you do.
Evan: You do it very well. Well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, and I, I love, I love if nothing else, I love meeting people.
I love learning about them. And it's just had to get over the, uh, the, the camera aspect in order to be able to do that, because this naturally happens for me in real life. You just have to be able to do it while being recorded. That's right. That's right. That's right. Well, you've been successful. It's awesome.
Yeah. Well, thank you. Just like Mike jumped in and jumped on Boss Talks and was guest 110. You two can be on the show. You don't need to be [00:58:00] A-C-E-O-A-C-O-O. If you are, I'll have you two, but. Not a requirement. I've had people that are property managers, maintenance technicians, people that are just starting out or are seasoned in their career.
So if you have a story to tell leadership, to share with others or just have passions that can help this industry and multifamily, I'd love to have you on the show and share it with everyone else that wants to know why you're a boss. So jump in and reach out to me and we'll make it happen. But this has been Boss Talks and catch me next week when we have episode 111 and I'll see you then.
Thanks so much.